How to give up support fee?

mack56 · #1 8th May 2007, 09:15

Dear all

We consider to cancel the support for our Baan IVc installations. We are quite stable with our Baan system and therefore it shouldn't be necessary to pay more then we get from support.

Questions:
- Has already somebody canceled the support for Baan IVc with Infor and kept the licence contract?
- What happens if I need the a new validation key without a support contract (only licence contract)?

Regards
mack56

EdwinvdBorg · #2 8th May 2007, 09:58

Hi Mack,

Why not ask these questions to your Infor account manager?
Then they know yet another customer is considering to cancel their support contract and hopefully this will finally ring a bell with Infor.
The strategy of milking is not enough to keep existing customers happy and is not going to prevent these customers from shopping for other ERP solutions instead of a migration to ERP LN.

The next two years will become crucial for the survival of the BAAN software as many BAAN IV customers have reached the point where their BAAN IV platform is at its end of the life cycle. Whether they like it or not a decision has to be made to move forward as all good things in life come to an end one day.

Infor should better be aware of what is happening in the marketplace at the moment as companies like Microsoft Business Solutions have already identified the potentials of replacing BAAN IV and have developed special programs to switch existing BAAN IV customers to Dynamics Ax 4.0 (formerly Axapta).
In my opinion Infor should do its utmost to convince existing BAAN IV customers to make the effort to migrate to ERP LN and in this process give them something in return as a reward for staying with Infor.
Again, all good things in life will come to an end one day. Also for Infor!

mack56 · #3 8th May 2007, 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdwinvdBorg

Why not ask these questions to your Infor account manager?

Thanks, Edwin.
We will do that. But before we want to check the "feelings" and experiences of our community.
Regards,
mack

Darren Phillips · #4 8th May 2007, 14:45

I think that they will ask to renew support if you require a new validation key. But the licences are yours anyway. One way around the validation issue is that assuming that you never want to change databases then if you use a windows machine to hold the licences it is possible to re-licence it youself if the hardware changes. which is something you cannot do on unix due to the way they generate the brand file.

tritonbaan · #5 16th May 2007, 17:30

Quote:

Infor should better be aware of what is happening in the marketplace at the moment as companies like Microsoft Business Solutions have already identified the potentials of replacing BAAN IV and have developed special programs to switch existing BAAN IV customers to Dynamics Ax 4.0 (formerly Axapta).

I don't think nowadays it make sense to replace an ERP system with another ERP system. The benefit from new system not justified by the change impact to the company. Only those companies whose business is growing rapidly would like to replace the system because they have money to spend.

tjbyfield · #6 17th May 2007, 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by tritonbaan

...Only those companies whose business is growing rapidly would like to replace the system because they have money to spend.

I think that any company that expects to stay in business will have to replace their Baan ERP. Those that are growing will want to replace asap to protect their future growth.

If Infor were focused on Baan product rather than the support cash stream they would make it attractive for customers to upgrade to LN.

Terry

Hitesh Shah · #7 17th May 2007, 07:07

It's not just that ERP Vs ERP . Even simple yet effective deployable solutions from non-ERP
vendors with industry specific core functionalities too present a big challenge.

EdwinvdBorg · #8 17th May 2007, 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by tritonbaan

I don't think nowadays it make sense to replace an ERP system with another ERP system.

.

In other words there is no pressure for INFOR to listen to their customers' needs and their sales people can just sit down, relax and enjoy the flight?

metbaan · #9 17th May 2007, 16:04

Hi,

I worked for a client in the Mid-West who decided to cancel support for their Baan IVc implementation, since it was fairly stable and they had consultants in-house to help with any issues.

We did run into the problem of license key validation when the lease on our server expired and we had to move to a new server. Baan was trying to get us to go back on support before they would issue a new validation key. We had to get our legal team involved.

In the end, we found a Baan consulting provided on the east coast who has a workaround to the validation key and showed us a way to move servers without having to go through Baan (and at a fraction of the cost).

So, to answer your question, yes its possible to live without Baan support.

Hope this helps,

Thanks,

Metbaan.

tritonbaan · #10 18th May 2007, 06:17

It is interesting to argue about whether it is justified to switch.
My supporting points:
1. Most ERP vendors behave like the same. If Infor eyes on your support fee, so others are the same. You escape from Infor, but you falls into another's trap.
2. The difference between one ERP and the other is not that big. If you company cannot use Baan well, chance is high that you will hit the same difficulties with another ERP.
3. Infor's support is not the worst among the top vendors. But I do agree Infor should not use licence key to threaten customers to keep paying the support fee. It is foolish to do something like this.
4. It is not fair Infor to say SSA/Infor not investing on the Baan product. I am now implementing Ln Fp3 for a customer, I still see many improvements comparing to Ln FP2. When FP4 is released, I have at least two customers is now planning to upgrade to it, because of the SOA and enhanced subcontracting functions.
5. The consulting cost to upgrade from BaanIV to LN is not that much. The customers we served actually spend not much on the upgrade.

Any counter points?

EdwinvdBorg · #11 18th May 2007, 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by tritonbaan

It is interesting to argue about whether it is justified to switch.
My supporting points:
1. Most ERP vendors behave like the same. If Infor eyes on your support fee, so others are the same. You escape from Infor, but you falls into another's trap.
2. The difference between one ERP and the other is not that big. If you company cannot use Baan well, chance is high that you will hit the same difficulties with another ERP.
3. Infor's support is not the worst among the top vendors. But I do agree Infor should not use licence key to threaten customers to keep paying the support fee. It is foolish to do something like this.
4. It is not fair Infor to say SSA/Infor not investing on the Baan product. I am now implementing Ln Fp3 for a customer, I still see many improvements comparing to Ln FP2. When FP4 is released, I have at least two customers is now planning to upgrade to it, because of the SOA and enhanced subcontracting functions.
5. The consulting cost to upgrade from BaanIV to LN is not that much. The customers we served actually spend not much on the upgrade.

Any counter points?

Hi Tritonbaan,

I do not disagree with you on any of the points mentioned by you but my concerns are more on the INFOR side and not on the customer side.
INFOR should do more to gain new customers by selling instead of just taking over another ERP vendor.
Otherwise it looses touch with the market needs and in the end customers will be leaving eventhough it costs them more money than staying.

tjbyfield · #12 19th May 2007, 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by tritonbaan

...The consulting cost to upgrade from BaanIV to LN is not that much. The customers we served actually spend not much on the upgrade...

The crucial issue that I see is not how little it would cost to upgrade with this consultant or that consultant but the uncertain future of Baan application itself.

Baan is only one of around twenty ERP applications that Infor has. Whilst the salesman may "promise" that Baan is the flagship ERP and it will always be supported and developed, do you really believe it? Already it has had four owners whose salesmen would all have made similar promises and given guarantees in order to get a sale and keep their job.

The irony is that the Baan product is still around but very few of those salespeople have any affinity with the product (they may still make similar promises but now for a different product)

(What about the upgrade cost for those folk who use Process module?)

tritonbaan · #13 23rd May 2007, 01:35

tjbyfield mentioned about process industry. I think the only reason that customers should seriously consider to switch is industry focus.
Ln does not have industry focus. It is still a general product for discrete manufacturing.

alexlow · #14 27th May 2007, 10:22

I have once thought of terminate the support license also, or even worst to scrap baan4, replace it with another system. But after gone through long evaluation process, studying other erp package like oracle,sap,pronto,great plain etc. finally i decide to use back infor and i'm i did it.

there are many good reason to replace/upgrade existing erp. most of all i believe many baan users are frustrated with the limitation of old system, need to do a lot of customize (which doesn't cover under standard support).
erp ln is so much more flexible and powerful. it will be less painful, more productive to just upgrade.

try to get some local reference and pay those company that upgrade from baan to erp ln a visit. probably it will give a different perspective after that, upgrade price will be vary for those who doesn't have a contract with infor.

steventay · #15 25th July 2007, 10:57

when is baan4 end of life?